News | Student Life

Students surprised, worried by national media coverage on ROTC

The heckling of an injured war veteran at a town hall event last week has drawn national media attention, to the surprise and discomfort of many involved.

The veteran, Anthony Maschek, GS, was arguing for the return to campus of a Reserve Officers’ Training Corps program at the University Senate’s second public forum on the subject.

“It doesn’t matter how you feel about war. It doesn’t matter how you feel about fighting. Other parts of the world are plotting to kill you right now when you go to bed,” Maschek said at the town hall Tuesday night. “It’s not a joke … these people, seriously, are trying to kill you. They hate America, they hate you.”

Some audience members booed. More laughed. A couple of students yelled “racist” as he left the microphone. But many students in attendance said the majority of the room applauded Maschek, who was awarded a Purple Heart for his service in Iraq.

Maschek and others said they are baffled by the framing given the story by media outlets like the New York Post, Fox News, and The Huffington Post and the especially vicious comments that have appeared on those sites.

“Columbia got slammed. Nobody’s happy with it,” military veteran Jose Robledo, GS and a University Senator, said.

Robledo said other senators found a news article about the town hall where some commenters threatened to come to Columbia and shoot students over the reported treatment of Maschek. He said that while this seems unlikely to happen, the senators informed Public Safety of the threats.

“In reality, the students who heckled Anthony … are not representative, not only of the anti-ROTC movement, but of the University,” said Robledo, a supporter of ROTC.

Ron Mazor, CC ’09, Law ’12 and the co-chair of the University Senate’s Task Force on Military Engagement, which is sponsoring the town halls, said that the response to Maschek’s speech was an “outlier.”

“We have a very clear policy on having commenters, speakers and the audience refrain from derogatory language or insulting language,” Mazor said.

Paco Martin del Campo, CC ’11 and a member of Lucha, a student group which is opposed to ROTC, was at the town hall Tuesday night and said he understands why some might have yelled or booed.

He said that Maschek’s remarks implied that Iraq has attacked the United States, and that Iraqis are thus among the people who want to kill Americans. But since Iraq did not attack the U.S. on September 11 or since then, Martin del Campo said, Maschek’s statement seemed to imply that all Muslims want to kill Americans.

“We shouldn’t let the unfortunate incident take away from the actual points that were being made,” Martin del Campo said.

Maschek said during his remarks that he had been shot nine times in Iraq and spent two years recovering in Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

In a statement that he sent to the media on Monday night, Maschek said he feels no animosity towards Columbia.

“Comments by a small number of individuals at the town hall meeting have not changed my positive experiences at Columbia,” Maschek wrote. “Thus far, my fellow students have been very interested in hearing about my past life and military experiences. Columbia has been attempting to get more veterans to share their experiences here, and the atmosphere here has been supportive despite the actions of a very small minority of the town hall participants.”

Robledo added he has met with members of Lucha and other opponents of ROTC, and that they are concerned about the negative image of ROTC opponents created by media reports. Robledo noted that he is worried about military veterans being portrayed as “victims of the big bad Columbia machine.”

He added that since the New York Post published its article, “everyone’s on the defensive,” and that this makes it harder to have a serious debate.

Martin del Campo said that the media reaction has been “designed to make it seem like people who oppose the military are unpatriotic.” He added that while he hopes ROTC supporters will “not try to demonize” those opposed to ROTC, that he thinks his side will act a bit differently after all the media attention.

“We’re obviously going to be more aware,” he said. “And at the next town hall, we won’t be disrespecting people.”
sammy.roth@columbiaspectator.com

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Anonymous posted on

Nice article, but disappointed that you're bothering to give coverage to "threats" from a couple of malcontent commenters on some web site. Just by mentioning it you're giving it more attention than it deserves. Still after the rumors going around last night I'm actually just relieved that it doesn't appear that any credible threats were actually made or received.

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Anonymous posted on

whaaa now some students are upset they got a bad rap, sounds like Columbia just got an "education" in the fact that words have meaning and actions have consequences. And they didn't even have to pay the exhorbant tuition fee. I guess some of the best of life's lessons are still free.

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Anonymous posted on

looks like some blue blood born with a silver spoon in their mouths students learned that the world's borders do indeed extend beyond the streets of Columbia University. However it is sad that the story continues to make the student body into the "victim" unwilling participants in the firestorm that those associated with them produced. Now unable to be protected by their helicopter parents from the actions and viewpoints of others that their words caused they come crying to the media for help.

Looks like a lot of CU's students got a very valuable lesson indeed in media relations, team dyanamics (that even though the words didn't escape YOUR mouth, they came from those associated with YOUR TEAM and effect came from you), world politics, military sciences, sociology, and maybe even a little psychology. Looks like they are learning LIFE lessons instead of whatever pablum their parents are paying tuition fees for to have some out of touch with reality, liberal, entrenced college professors to shove down their throats. Sometimes as stated above some of life's greatest lessons are those that come free of charge.

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Anonymous posted on

Even if it was only a few students in the town hall who laughed, it was all the students who let them leave without calling them out. And it doesn't help when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is allowed to speak at your school. Unless the Columbia administration releases a formal apology soon, this incident will become a label of Columbia.

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Anonymous posted on

First off, people did call them out, telling them to not interrupt when they started to do so. And second, what were the kids to do, wave a finger at them and tell them 'bad'? I'm sure that would have made a huge difference.
I am for ROTC on campus, but my bigger concern is this us vs. them attitude that is only being blown up even more with the publication of these news articles about this incident. Now you have people pretty much berating someone the don't know about who they are and the 'life lessons' they learned. Trust me, I have my opinions about those who speak out against ROTC and seem to not have a whole lot of real world experience. That doesn't give me the right to just bash them, on this forum or any other. That is the same thing those idiots did to Maschek. ROTC or no ROTC, I just want the campus to be excepting of the many veterans it already has.

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Bretfox posted on

CU students appear to be a bunch of spoiled brats who have no respect for anyone who doesn't agree with their warped thinking. If I were the young man who was mistreated I would kick the dust off my feet and move on to another university. Why waste your time at CU? What credible employer would hire a CU grad? I guess these immature students don't have to worry about a job because they will be working for dad.

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Anonymous posted on

This response in itself is pretty disrespectful towards the entire CU community. You sir need to calm down. The disrespectful behavior exhibited by a FEW students shouldn't reflect upon everyone else. YOU are showing just how ignorant you are by generalizing all Columbia students as "immature students [who] don't have to worry about a job because they will be working for dad."

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Anonymous posted on

"What credible employer would hire a CU grad?"
This is laughable, as is the fact that you further edited that ridiculous comment. Would you consider the United States of America in aggregate a credible employer, because I believe they hired a CU grad to be President. If you don't consider the USA a credible employer I'm actually in complete agreement since our country is mostly made up of self-righteous simpletons like yourself. But what do I know, I'm just a lefty elitist prick.

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Anonymous posted on

Whether they allow an ROTC program or not, Columbia definately needs a program on manners and constructive ways to take criticism. Hopefully when wow joins the real world the lefty elist prickness will give way to realism.

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Anonymous posted on

Why don't you go back to that real world and stop commenting on college publications about college events from a college you don't go to. In the real world I will be going into, there is not much difference between people on the left and right who are able to think critically and intelligently. There is, however, a large difference between these people and those who stand on either side of an issue yelling self-righteous slogans and platitudes via the internet. Those people also tend to not have a sense of humor, and tend not to work where I'm going, thank God (though I don't believe in him because I am a Stalinist).

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Anonymous posted on

*Maoist

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Anonymous posted on

*Freudomarxist

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Anonymous posted on

This forum is obviously open to the public, maybe the editors thought outside opinions would be welcome. Where ever you work you will definately need to be able to take criticism, not just by figuratively sticking out your tounge. Until then keep yelling self-righteous platitudes via the internet.

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Anonymous posted on

Obama was a transfer student...

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Anonymous posted on

Well Put. I agree with your remarks right to the point!

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Anonymous posted on

If you are now surprised and worried about the national coverage, then you learned nothing from having Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speak at your campus. One of these days, the prestige that used to be associated with Columbia University will be so damaged by the elitism and ignorance of the real world to the point where a community college will be more appealing to those seeking knowledge.

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Anonymous posted on

how about you get a life?

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Anonymous posted on

Lol, awesome

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Anonymous posted on

Yea man, awesome, you really got him on that one. Let's smoke a bowl and goto the transvestite mixer.

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Anonymous posted on

That's the best you can do? I suggest you take your own advice.

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Anonymous posted on

Columbia has a long history of inviting anti-American haters to their campus. Anti American hate makes them horny and feel important, they go home after and masturbate repeatedly .

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Anonymous posted on

HOW'D YOU KNOW!? Fellow Columbians, we've been revealed!!!

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Anonymous posted on

Just an FYI to everyone who's posting here ragging on Columbia. I'm a vet and a student here, and I'm in favor of bringing ROTC back.

I've never been treated badly at Columbia. I've had students I don't even know thank me for my service. I've had professors make accommodations for me when I needed to miss class for training. The students who heckled this vet were members of various campus fringe groups. They do not represent the mainstream Columbia community. Columbia is not anti-military. There are some anti-military folks here, as there are elsewhere in American society, but they do not speak for all of us or even, really, for a significant number of us.

Columbia's a great school. I've met some really amazing people here - some of whom will be joining the military after graduation, even without having had a ROTC program to get them there. I was deeply ashamed when those few students heckled that wounded vet but I am also incredibly disturbed that the "reporters" who covered that incident sat through two and a half hours of what had been an almost entirely civil and respectful debate, and the only thing they felt was worth covering was the four or so seconds when a handful of students behaved inappropriately.

Most of us are having an honest and thoughtful discussion right now. Please don't take the actions of a very few people as representative of us or our culture.

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Anonymous posted on

Actually I just want to add to this to point out that probably no elite school in the country (excluding the military academies) is more vet-friendly than Columbia. The School of General Studies, where I am a student, exists largely because Columbia wanted to be able to absorb veterans returning from WWII. There are something like 180 veterans here now, more than there are at any other school in the Ivy League - and almost all of us are attending completely for free, because Columbia is a full participant in the Yellow Ribbon Program. Given the hefty tuition here, full participation in the YRP comes at no small cost to Columbia and it will be even more expensive once the "Improved" GI Bill takes effect next year. I am incredibly grateful for the education I'm getting here, and the people I have to thank are the people right here at Columbia who decided that they wanted to find some way to repay the service that we veterans have given to our country.

I say again: Columbia is not anti-military.

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Bretfox posted on

What you say and what CU does are two different things. Again, get out before you get indoctrinated by the liberal, progressive, socialist mind set that seems to be so prevalent at CU. I am beginning to think it may be too late for you. If you really want your education to count, I say get out now or forever be stuck with defending a blemished degree from a has-been university.

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Anonymous posted on

Glad you're having a good experience but the heckling happened in connection with Columbia University and at the very least someone that represents the school should have applogized to Anthony Maschek for the rude and disrespectful reception he received.

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Anonymous posted on

You stated the problem, "Columbia is an elite school. Most of the county is gets screwed by the graduates of elite schools like yours. Our country is in dire straights and most of the leadership graduated from the likes of Columbia, Harvard, Stanford etc. Your graduates need to be held accountable for the mess you have made. Instead you think you are entitled.

About the high tuition, how much of that is funded by the government your faculty and students despise. Like government workers the elite schools have gamed the system.

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Anonymous posted on

Thanks for your perspective, Stephen. I'll be honest, I was pretty pissed when I first heard this story. There's no excuse for that four seconds of complete disrespect Maschek faced. Of course, I may be up in arms because I was also in the 1st BCT of the 10th Mountain Division, and I was there in Kirkuk the night Maschek's unit was attacked.

But I looked into it and I found out that Columbia's actually got more Veterans than any other Ivy League school, with the General Studies program which was founded precisely FOR Veterans still going strong 60 years later. I'm still pissed at the hecklers, but I'll give Columbia credit for what it DOES and not for the words of a handful of its students.

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Bretfox posted on

Stephen, you sound like a decent guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time. CU used to have a lot of respect from the private business sector. However, the negative publicity that CU has fairly gotten over the last few years will have long lasting consequences. If I were you, I would salvage as many credits as I could and transfer out. CU, appears to be an elitist university that is a breeding ground for rebellious students who have nothing worthy to contribute to America. This immaturity and lack of respect for our military is only a surface indicator of a much deeper problem. Run, get out now!

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Anonymous posted on

Bretfox, you sound pretty petulant now that your "facts" are not supported by a Columbia vet. Get over it. Stephen tells you what he's experienced and you still want to paint the entire university as some sort of intolerant place. In America, we tolerate all kinds of speech, even yours.

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Anonymous posted on

Bretfox,

I am also a veteran currently studying at CU and this is most definitely NOT the "wrong place at the wrong time". Columbia has more veterans on its campus than all the other Ivy League schools put together. It also has a veteran support infrastructure that is amazing. Believe it or not, after 4 years in the Marines I actually learned how to think for myself, and it's not beyond my capacity to get an education here without being "tainted" or "indoctrinated" or whatever you want to call it.

And by the way, I don't know if or where you went to college, but super left-wing morons are prevalent on pretty much every top-tier campus. Going to a school other than Columbia wouldn't "save" poor little old me from having to deal with these retards every one in a while. Or is the solution for veterans not to have access to an elite education? Should I be tailgating with the good ol' boys at East Bumf**k State University instead?

S/F

Mike

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Bretfox posted on

You question where I went to college? What does that have to do with what is right or wrong? You are confusing integrity with education. You are letting your elitist mentality reveal the true you. If you are a true Marine you would have stood up and defended Anthony Maschek rather than sit by and let him be disgraced. You were silent and you let the crowd laugh him off the stage. Now you want me to respect you. Get a life!

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Anonymous posted on

He was not "laughed off the stage", you silly fanatic. Listen to the audio. He received some pretty hearty applause when he finished speaking.

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Anonymous posted on

I did listen to the audio. There is some pretty hearty laughter on that audio. Also, this young war veteran was even called a "racist". What kind of ignorant low class people do that? This young man was nearly killed protecting your rights. You should be ashamed of the behavior exhibited by your friends instead of defending them.

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Anonymous posted on

I was silent and let the crowd laugh him off the stage? The crowd applauded him, there were only two girls who were heckling him, and they left quickly after the town hall before I and a few others could talk to them.

I'm not questioning where you went to college, nor do I really care; point is, the far-left has a presence at most of the elite universities in this country, and the idea that veterans should avoid them and thus avoid getting a top-tier education that is highly valued by the job market, is, frankly, patronizing and insulting.

Thanks for questioning whether I'm "a true Marine". Did you ever serve your country?

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Anonymous posted on

This little squabble could go on and on. So this is my last comment.

Yes I did serve my country and I apologize for questioning your service. However, as a Marine, I think it would really server CU well if you and the others posting here would contact the news media and tell them that you support our military and having ROTC on the campus. Otherwise, folks like me are going to be left with bitter memories.

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Anonymous posted on

We are in the process of doing that right now. Semper Fidelis.

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Bretfox posted on

I am sure that there are good mixed in with the bad. However, when you sit there in the audience and let other students degrade this war veteran and not stand up and defend him then shame on you.

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Anonymous posted on

Don't worry. Columbia MilVets can handle their business on campus.

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Anonymous posted on

Sounds like you guys have a handle on it then!

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Anonymous posted on

Of course America has enemies. Sadly we aren't going after them. Just doing our best to arm, train and promote free trade with them.
Now if your a poor dirt farmer from a poor country and bear no threat to the American people then watch out! Multi million dollar smart bombs headed your way!

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Bretfox posted on

What poor dirt farmer did American hit with smart bombs?

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Anonymous posted on

^ Civilians have always been casualties of war. Now, how you would like to spin that is up to you, but to deny that is just indefensible.

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Anonymous posted on

Well put again.

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K-Dog posted on

If you have a policy about audience members refraining from derogatory language, why weren't they removed immediately? THAT is why the University is getting what it is getting...because it just sat there while this man who deserved your respect and honor got everything but.

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Anonymous posted on

Wow! These students hate being smeared by the actions of a few... hmmmm kind of like this career military officer hating being smeared and stereotyped for choosing to serve/protect my country. I know, I know it's ok because their stereotype about us military "war mongers" is all true. What was I thinking?

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Anonymous posted on

I'm glad these students who heckled him were able to get a bit of an education on what life is like outside their bubble.

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1since40 posted on

This is what happens when the liberal, anti-war, drug-addled hippies of the 60's grow up and become college professors. They see this as Vietnam all over again, and are poisoning the minds of these young, impressionable, spoiled and sheltered teenagers.

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Anonymous posted on

I wasn't there, but at a guess, there wasn't a stronger official reaction to the hecklers because nobody took them seriously at the time. The media-driven reactions have given them more credibility than they could have given themselves.

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Anonymous posted on

The media attention was well deserved. The country should know how verterans are treated on some campuses.Perhaps it wasn't taken seriously because this type of behaviour is not unusual at Columbia.

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Anonymous posted on

Martin del Campo said that the media reaction has been “designed to make it seem like people who oppose the military are unpatriotic.” He added that while he hopes ROTC supporters will “not try to demonize” those opposed to ROTC, that he thinks his side will act a bit differently after all the media attention.
“We’re obviously going to be more aware,” he said. “And at the next town hall, we won’t be disrespecting people.”

No Martin, the media attention was reported because it was reprehensible to treat a war veteran that way. You hope the pro ROTC people won't demonize your group? Isn't that like saying you hope they won't treat you like you've been treating them? We're going to be more aware? For crying out loud this is college not grammar school you should have been more aware years ago.

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sgtted posted on

If the hecklers were not removed immediately, then your image problems will continue.

This rudeness by student leftists isn't new nor is it happening in a vacuum in our Nations Universities. Leftist groups on campus are nothing more than the acceptance of the cheerleaders of totalitarianist ideas and cultures as long as the cheerleaders oppose American foreign policy objectives.

I don't imagine that a KKK student group would be tolerated on campus, yet other student groups, such as the Muslim Student Association, who are a creature of the Muslim Brotherhood and are aligned with the International Solidarity Movement, supporting Hamas and Hezb'allahs goals of driving the Jews out of Israel into the sea, are more than tolerated; they are celebrated as "diversity" trophies.

As long as the casual acceptance of such leftwing racist hatred and vocal support for a Muslim conducted holocaust in the Middle East is given the imprimature of respectful discourse and dissent, your University will always have image problems.

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Anonymous posted on

If Columbia is going to allow these people to speak up, maybe there should be some drug testing first. I could smell pot all around me.

And if you do not like the policies of the military's Commander In Chief, blame him, the President who sent another 3000 troops into Afghanistan, not these patriotic heroes. What kind of person would deny someone the opportunity of a Columbia education? What kind of person would heckle and boo a military hero who protects the very rights you are able to exercise in these meetings?

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Anonymous posted on

"...they are concerned about the negative image of ROTC opponents created by media reports."

This should be called the Lindsay Lohan defense. "Yeah, maybe I was kinda, sorta wrong but it's the media's fault that it makes me look bad." As long as this mindset persists, the problem will persist.

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Anonymous posted on

this from the same newspaper -- spectator -- that calls gays and lesbians queers. y'all are f---d up up there in morningside heights.

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Anonymous posted on

Huh? What is this supposed to mean? These groups on campus self-identify as queer. LGBTQQIAA is an accepted acronym now, one of the Q's standing for queer (the other for questioning). Why is this even an issue?

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Anonymous posted on

Message to self-righteous Ivy Leage kiddies: grow up. But then again, some day you will have to....

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Anonymous posted on

Actually, many of them won't. They will go on to (a) graduate school and academic careers, (b) Wall Street, or (c) government/politics, all of which allow people to be perpetually self-righteous and immature.

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m_rod posted on

What an embarrasment to the school.

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Anonymous posted on

Really? Students are surprised that the public would take exception to people yelling "racist!" and laughing at a wounded soldier? What a bubble some people live in.

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jack31961 posted on

I find it highly offensive to recieve an email from a group called Move America Foward, In an attempt to raise money for their organazation, they said this young man was assaulted and beaten at the forum!

This is libel against the university. I call Columbias legal department to look into it.

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Anonymous posted on

Oh Yeah, good luck. What about all the hate generated by students and faculty directed against anyone who dares disagree with the Progressive orthodoxy at Columbia? Columbia is a cesspool of Progressive hate.

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Anonymous posted on

Columbia and the other Ivy League schools are no longer relevant. These institution cater to the children of elitists who live in an isolated academic world with no real connects to the the hundreds of millions of Americans who live in the United States. Most despise America and her culture so let them be. We don't need them. We don't need officers we cannot trust.

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Anonymous posted on

True words - "These institutions cater to the children of elitists who live in an isolated academic world with no real connects to the the hundreds of millions of Americans who live in the United States."
To booh and laugh at a veteran who was wounded serving America, I really wish all the students who behaved this way could be taken to Afghanistan and dropped off to make it on their own. Let's see how they feel about America and the American military afterwards, if they even survive their ordeal. Total idiots who have no clue what the real world is like, all of them.
Columbia's reputation is in full decline, like an out of control train heading for the downhill.

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Anonymous posted on

Columbia's reputation stands on much more than what a few misguided students can do, or on the sensationalist way in which lesser media (which have launched this anti-Columbia campaign) portray it. As others have stated here, Columbia has gladly welcomed a fair amount of War Veterans, and it has social programs devised to help their neighboring community. Its students participate in activities such as Engineers without Borders, and Columbia's research, both in the humanities and science has a wide scope. The funding it gets for such research is based on strict and anonymous peer review.

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Anonymous posted on

Shoot the messenger?

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Anonymous posted on

blackhole13, you and bretfox are just trolling and making BROAD generalizations with no supporting evidence, let alone the fact that two or three extremists make some very disrespectful remarks.

Just because someone goes to an Ivy League school does not mean they are entitled or the son of a Senator or privileged in any way. This is the 21st Century, and Columbia is one of the most diverse Ivy League schools out there. Get your facts straight before you decide to bash on an institution which you know nothing about.

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Anonymous posted on

Right on. I went to Columbia and paid my own way. I worked my butt off to earn enough to go to school. Anybody who thinks Columbia is all privileged kids is sorely mistaken.

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Anonymous posted on

No one who read this article has any reading comprehension skills, either.

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Anonymous posted on

Khjsgnkshtfskjgfbjgfbsgmfkbhgfshhvkbhgvsbg.........you liberal tool

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Anonymous posted on

so so so true.

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Anonymous posted on

Whether ROTC is accepted back in Ivy League institutions or not deserves a civilized and reasoned debate where all voices should be heard. Heckling veteran, Anthony Maschek by a few people was wrong, not only because of the disrespect they showed to a honorable person, but because they tainted the debate. However, all these hate messages against Columbia, supported by national media aren't any better than those who heckled veteran Maschek, by blowing the incident out of proportion (No, most Columbians aren't like that.) They have unfortunately placed themselves at their same level. Not listening at their dissenters, both groups are showing intolerance akin to totalitarian regimes.

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Anonymous posted on

You are right Ender, bashing CU for being the Ahmadinejad loving liberal troll university it is is just as bad as heckling a disabled war vet who was shot 11 times fighting for his country. What arrogance, typical of a CU student, the more you students post, the more we understand you as the liberal wackjobs you are

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Anonymous posted on

And the more you troll the more you show you're no better than those who hekleled veteran Maschek (and kudos to him!).

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Anonymous posted on

britcastle, you are such a misinformed troll. get your facts straight. Why don't you take a minute or two to research Ahmadinejad's visit - see WHY he was invited, and what was said. The problem is that you won't, because you are another one of those people who just believes the first thing they see on the news without question. Which is exactly why you are freaking out over this story, about which you have the facts wrong.

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Anonymous posted on

There is a vocal conservative faction that opposes ROTC at Columbia. It wants to keep Columbia out of the military as much as anti-military radicals want to keep the military out of Columbia. The two factions are symbiotic.

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Anonymous posted on

I think the funniest thing about this is that, besides the fact that Obama pretty much called schools like Columbia out in the State of the Union address, these articles, which were written because of this heckling by anti-ROTC students, may have sealed the deal for letting ROTC back. Imagine the field day Fox News would have if the school doesn't allow it back.
I'm amazed news sources such as Fox News and the New York Post has spawned such a response at a school like Columbia. Call me brain-washed by my liberal schooling, but I put the Post somewhere between the National Inquirer and the Sunday funnies. And the worse part is now you all have these people on here posting about how awful Columbia is. Give it a break. The news stories, naturally, made the story a little more dramatic than it was. Trust me, I doubt Maschek left that night hanging his head for being bullied. The thing that bugs me is people still aren't giving him credit for what he said. He's right, there are bad men out there plotting to kill you (this article seems to have a weird quote, which is funny because I'm sure they went to the tape). This doesn't mean every foreigner, and Maschek never meant it like that. I know that for some people at this school, 9/11 happened when they were in elementary school. But just last Christmas a young man tried to blow up a plane, and earlier last year someone parked a car full of explosives in the middle of Times Square. These people don't care who you are, what you think about ROTC on campus, or even what you think of America. They want to to kill you. I am all for the discussion about ROTC and I get why it might not be a great idea to bring it back. But at least give the man credit for speaking the truth, unlike a lot of the people who get up at these forums. I hope someone brings a sign that says his quote to the next meeting.

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Anonymous posted on

Your right, anthropology trolls heckling a disabled vet isnt that big of a news story at Columbia, it is expected behavior, good point you liberal hack.

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Anonymous posted on

The NY Post, Fox News and Huffington (the messengers) did not spawn the response; the event at the town hall did (the message). The reason many of the other news agencies didn't report it is that they have an agenda much like yours. I doubt anyone assumed Maschek left hanging his head, he's a man of honor that has been through a lot more than that. This story touched a nerve in mainstream America, if a school rep had appologized quickly the hail storm would have stopped. A school like columbia is not above reproach.

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colulion posted on

I would say my problem with this debate here is the notion that-

a) somehow heckling a war veteran is wrong; why isn't heckling in general the crime. almost everyone only mentions the fact that it was done to maschek and therefore deserves our ire.

b) everyone is equally capable of saying things that are reprehensible and wrong, or that which spurs our emotion to act in a way that is uncivilized. 'you lie' anyone?

c) to GS '15, how do you know what Maschek meant or not? as someone pointed out here, words have consequences and when not properly contextualized they incite reactions. there is no freedom of speech for someone who incites a riot or call to violence. ultimately we mustn't disregard the statements that maschek made that are for some individuals reasonable comments and to others problematic declarations of imperialism (and most folks who understand imperialism as necessarily, if unconsciously, a product of racial tensions between countries would probably have one thought about this).

d) the ahmadinejad thing is such a non sequitur that mentioning it seems incredibly silly. explain to me the relationship between inviting someone, and a forum on rotc with heated opinions.

---

so you can be someone like me that is kind of luke warm on the rotc issue (i don't know if it deserves such a thorough treatment for an issue that i think is more symbolic than will have a huge consequence), or have a more defined stake, but being unaware of the above issues makes the debate noxious and certainly eliminates the potential on here and elsewhere for us to have a reasoned debate unless we acknowledge the validity of points and where people come from.

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Anonymous posted on

The fact that you try to rationalize the heckling of this wounded vet and your ridiculous imperialism notion demonstrates that you are definitely learning the gibberish your liberal nut job professors are teaching you. Your school got put on the lliberal nut job radar when they invited with open arms one of the countries top enemies, Ahmadinejad, and I am sure your wacked out nut job student body respected his speech with no heckling. The anthropology dept was pry in the front row crying and fainting during his speech. The recent despicable incident only solidifies that CU is breeding a bunch of clueless, anti American liberal trolls.

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colulion posted on

read my post please, your lack of ability to read may be your greatest weakness.

a) i didn't rationalize the heckling, i merely stated that heckling itself was the crime and not who was heckled.

b) there is a reasonable argument that states there is no such thing as just war, especially with regard to american actions as being imperliastic and by extension racialist (indeed there is a huge literature on this).

c) i am a graduate student in history, i have learned how to argue other people's arguments, i attend a more 'conservative' university in chicago, so your false statement once again shows the poverty of your own logic.

d) when you are capable of putting together cogent thoughts, please return to the debate.

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Anonymous posted on

Hey colulion, I read your post, here are some of your quotes in case you forgot:
"somehow heckling a war veteran is wrong"-your use of the word "somehow" casts doubt in your mind that heckling a war veteran is wrong

"everyone is equally capable of saying things that are reprehensible and wrong" This suggests that you think Maschek's comments were wrong and deserved the response it got. It doesn't matter if you are some liberal nutjob, worthless CU anthropology student which connects defending our country from people who want to kill us to "racism" and "imperialism", you can disagree with the speaker without heckling. Heckling is not a crime, but heckling a disabled war veteran is going to spark fierce reaction from people who love this country and respect our military. CU and the hecklers are getting what they deserve, you can think your way into your anti-imperialistic, liberal theories, but you lack common sense, which tells us that if you heckle a disabled war veteran you will be met with a harsh, fierce response by most in this country. In your little liberal world you live in, you cannot comprehend this. You have no common sense as you have thought yourself into this idiotic theory of thinking, which also means when you graduate with your history degree, the only job you will be able to find is probably being a professor at CU, congrats!!!

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colulion posted on

I think that Maschek'a statements were problematic and I could see how it would lead folks to disapprove. I do believe it is a missing piece to this debate. I don't think someone is untouchable just because they served in the military. I also believe heckling is wrong, period. But that is probably because of my adherence to rules of civility and decorum. Ultimately you don't have an argument. Vague statements you place together without strings.

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Anonymous posted on

a) Heckling anybody is problematic. Heckling somebody who was shot several times on his way to getting the life experience he is speaking to is really a stretch. And a lot of people are sensitive about the treatment of Veterans because a generation ago, Vietnam Veterans really were rejected by a large segment of society, and our society has come to be ashamed of that (justifiably.)

b) I concur. People from all sorts of political persuasions and world views are capable of saying things that are reprehensible or wrong. They demonstrate this capability every day.

c) You can certainly argue about imperialism and colonialism - having studied Arabic and Middle East culture at the Defense Language Institute, I am well aware that these perspectives have great weight in the Middle East. But I don't really understand why people use the term "racist" when it comes to people from other countries. Xenophobe might be a better choice of terms, because the feelings and perceptions a person holds towards foreigners tend to be quite different from those directed towards people who are merely a different shade.

d) The Ahmadinejad thing is no non sequitur. Ahmadinejad is on Iranian radio or TV every week calling the U.S. "The Great Satan." His ambitions for nuclear weapons are aimed at Western interests. He has expressed a desire to wipe Israel off the map. This concept is usually referred to as genocide. He denies the Holocaust. He and the other leaders of Iran oppress their people. He and the other leaders have also backed various militant groups, including groups in Iraq which have successfully targeted literally thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians in suicide bombings and IEDs. And our troops as well. A LOT of people were pretty upset when Columbia invited him to speak. Then something like this recent ROTC forum pops up on the radar. People remember things like this. It does not reflect well on Columbia University.

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colulion posted on

a) agreed, i think 'heckling' is the problem. i would further say that if Mr. Maschek had said nothing and was heckled merely for being a veteran, as those in the 70s were, i would see this as being a greater concern, but since he did speak and said things that are controversial, we must take his role into perspective.

b)

c) i do find the use of the world 'racist' problematic, but if you know the long history of imperialism, you know that it is is most often constructed and developed using a discourse of 'race.' it is not a stretch for folks to know that american interest in the middle east began as a result of a sense of racial superiority. indeed i think the more proper term is racialist, because it is a more sober term to talk about when folks believe races have differences without necessarily calling it a hierarchy as racism purports, but ultimately i think if folks 'know' this argument, they become less upset by the use of the world racist, and see it as an off-shot of a legitimate debate. personally i don't think american actors in most of the 20th century acted race-consciously enough for us to consider american efforts exclusively race-based as most late 19th century imperialism was.

d) i think that ahmadinejad is a non sequitur, and the only reason one brings him up is because he/she is trying to play into notions of fear. the difference between the two cases are so stark that render such a comparison ill-suited. though someone might say - oh that is just columbia being liberal. it would obfuscate both a) the fact that columbia invites a lot of folks to campus that are popular and unpopular for various reasons, b) a student expressing his/her opinion is not the same as the university inviting someone to speak, c) prezbo lad into ahmadinejad pretty strongly, as most recall, and took a beating from academics in order to rescue, to an extent, columbia's image.

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Darrell Todd Maurina posted on

I live and work outside Fort Leonard Wood in central Missouri. That's the home of the Army Engineer School, where our soldiers are trained to defeat the improvised explosive devices that are the major killer of our troops in Iraq, the Military Police School where soldiers are trained to prevent something like Abu Ghraib from happening again, and the Chemical School (now CBRN) where not only military but also civilian personnel are trained to defend against chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear attacks.

I'm also in the somewhat unusual situation of covering the military as a reporter, while having once lived in New York City and regularly dealt with graduates of schools like Columbia. Here's something I posted on an Army leader's blog today. Bottom line up front: I think a few people at Columbia had better learn that American free speech and free press came about because of the sacrifices of many soldiers -- some of them Columbia graduates -- who understand that evil people who hate American values exist in the world. Don't like it? Move to Kabul or Baghdad or Tehran and try to use your free speech.
____

Unfortunately, the shades of Vietnam-era abuse of veterans are coming back. At least in Vietnam, the anti-military student demonstrators had something in common with the Viet Cong -- shared leftist views. These Columbia students are just flat out blind if they don't realize that even unquestioned liberals like Hillary Clinton realized the danger of the Taliban and its abuse of women in Afghanistan all the way back in the 1990s. Any liberals who want to ignore the danger posed by modern Islamic radicalism are being inconsistent with their own beliefs -- and let's not forget that they attacked us. If what we're doing in Afghanistan isn't a legitimate war deserving of support from all sectors of the political spectrum from conservatives to liberals, then what else could possibly qualify?

Those of us in the news media who aren't anti-military have spent many years regularly listening to the sort of anti-military nonsense from our colleagues that this (New York Post) article illustrates.

Anti-military attitudes predominate in much of our intellectual and cultural and academic and business elite, including and perhaps especially the news media and the universities. While I really hate to read stuff like this being said to any veteran, let alone a wounded combat veteran, one good thing about **NOT** having ROTC at places with lots of students like these anti-military leftists is that the military won't have to deal with people who join ROTC merely to pay for the very expensive tuition at Columbia University while retaining similar though less extreme negative views about the military.

The fact is that a Columbia student who wants ROTC can already join by cross-enrolling at Fordham University: http://www.columbiaspectator.c...

How many people are using that cross-enrollment option? Obviously, not very many.

However, there are a few. I think I remember reading a New York Times article a few years ago quoting a Columbia student arguing for ROTC at Columbia who was in that cross-enrollment program at Fordham. What were his grounds? He said putting ROTC back into Ivy League schools wouldn't militarize the schools since most Ivy League students have no interest in ROTC, but rather would liberalize the military because Columbia students who make the military their career are likely to be less conservative than those who go through ROTC programs at places like Texas A&M.

There's obviously a place for patriotic American liberals who look to Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson for their views of American ideals. Army recruiting was fairly successful in Greenwich Village during World War II, when patriotic liberals were quite willing to sign up to fight fascism and defeat Hitler. I think many of us today can name fairly liberal women who joined the Army at least in part out of disgust at what was being done to abuse women in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Middle East. From what I'm being told, the example of successful female mid-ranking and senior American officers today in the Middle East is causing a fair bit of "cognitive dissonance" among well-educated Middle Eastern women who start asking hard questions about why they can't be allowed to do things which American women have proven their ability to do.

However, if Columbia University students want to mock and jeer a decorated combat veteran whose sacrifices helped ensure their right to free speech, I'm not sure it's such a bad thing to let everybody know just how anti-military that school is. If it results in people waking up and choosing to pay their tuition somewhere else, that might even be a good thing. Private schools can teach what they want, of course, but why voluntarily pay the salaries of professors who hate America and ridicule the Army and its mission?

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Anonymous posted on

Fort lost in the woods in the state of misery! A-1-10, Heartbreak ridge, and the Engineering trail. Good times ... okay, not really.

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Anonymous posted on

Good Ole Fort Leonard Wood. C-1-48, Basic Combat Training, March through June of 2003. Good times. And bad times. Really. :)

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Anonymous posted on

It's the university's responsibility to put the meeting in perspective; if the heckling incident was less intense than the media portrayed it, then the university should get that information out. In any event, students should respect the opinions of others at an open forum, particularly if they want their own opinions to be taken seriously.

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Anonymous posted on

Indeed! At the next Town-Hall Meeting the Senate will need to expel anyone who heckles the speaker in turn, whatever his stance.

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justanaverageguy posted on

War is far too mundane for the elite to participate. Putting one's life on the line is reserved for the under-represented American cattle/sheeple.

The overrepresented elite at Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Congress, Supreme Court, US media will not fight. They prefer profiteering and making/stealing money at the corrupt Wall Street houses. Others will take care of fighting for US interests.

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Anonymous posted on

Then that's an argument for having ROTC in Ivy League institutions! It would be a certain way to bring that part of the society to contribute its fair share.

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Anonymous posted on

I appreciate your satire, amongst this talk of liberals and low income communities and power hungry heads of state. I believe that this is one reason they should let ROTC back on campus. We have not had a President who has served in the military since the first George Bush (and no, I am not counting W's time spent in a reserve unit filled with the likes of the Dallas Cowboys and other Texas elite). If all the Ivy's allowed ROTC, I am not saying that soon a President would, but at least the decision makers of tomorrow would have a better idea of the consequences of war. At the town hall, someone said that having ROTC at Columbia would not change the US or the military. I believe it would, and I think having it at all the Ivy's would have an even bigger impact on the future of our republic.

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Anonymous posted on

The notion that the elite are overrepresented at "elite" institutions is entirely false these days. Columbia's student body is 57% minorities. Over 50% of Columbia's students receive financial aid. You have no right to make such assumptions. You don't have any clue how many of us at schools like this worked extremely hard and overcame struggles - financial, family, or whatever else - to make it to where we are. And like it's been stated before, Columbia has more vets than any other Ivy League school.

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Anonymous posted on

Excuse the non-politically incorrect candor. If you are trying to say that minorities can not be the elite.....you are far far removed from reality. In typical caste societies the minorities ARE the elite.

Ask the Shiites in Iraq and in Bahrain. The minority Sunnis are vastly overrepresented in Universities and in government similar to the over representation of some in the USA. It comes down to tribal intetrests protecting their own.

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Anonymous posted on

The guy holding the sign in the picture looks like a Pinko Creep!

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AOG posted on

I'm a hispanic, and find it excessively offensive that another hispanic (or descendent of) forms a group, calls it a hispanic name (Lucha) that has communist/Che implications, then goes to one of our Universities, probably on taxpayer dime, and opposes on campus ROTC. Martin de Campo, you should take your lucha south of the border. In fact, pack your bags and go study at the Universidad de La Habana. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms there.

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Anonymous posted on

Or to Venezuela... On the other hand, he should be entitled to express his opinion, so long as he respects his dissenters. That's the essential difference between America and those regimes.

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Anonymous posted on

I am sure the CU students are very surprised that not everyone in the country shares their liberal nut job ideas. Oh wait, the Taliban may share their ideas of ridiculing a wounded American soldier. CU students are a bunch of spoiled liberal trash that serve no purpose but to occupy the coffee shops studying their communist manifesto for their anthropology class. The anthropology trolls who heckled the wounded vet probably have no remorse whatsoever and are proud of their accomplishment. Maybe the anthropology dept should take a hiking trip to Iran and visit their hero Ahmadinejad.

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colulion posted on

Most of the country believes we went to war in Iraq under justified pretenses. So using some kind of popular logic is not sufficient to be accurate. it would be my hope that folks could begin to see that just like not all Columbia students are the same, not all war vets are the same. Maschek should be honored for what he did, but he should also be responsible for what he says. Let's hold everyone to the same standard. It's part of reason and one of the great parts about this country. Which has been protected by the bravery of soldiers, teachers, cops and civil servants.

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Anonymous posted on

We went to war in Iraq in 2003 because Saddam Hussein refused to be a rational actor. For 12 years, Saddam refused to meet the standard of proof that he had disarmed according to the conditions of his 1991 surrender. He could and should have met those conditions within the first year after the Gulf War. In addition to Saddam's refusal to meet the conditions of his surrender, he violated subequent UN resolutions and embargoes. It was never the inspectors' role to prove he had WMD; after 1991, it was Saddam's responsibility to prove he had ended his programs, had no plans to reconstitute his programs, and destroyed his stocks, and abide by the UN resolutions. Saddam did not.

In 2003, President Clinton, who had bombed Iraq, enforced no-fly zones, etc, in his 8 years in office supported President Bush's decisions based on Clinton's presidential understanding of the situation in Iraq.

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colulion posted on

We can argue what we thought then. But what we know now is different. Most polls continue to show that americans believe we went to war under justified pretenses and that Iraq is liked to Al Qaeda. I personally am not a fan of too much deployment because it stretches our resources and puts us into a situation where we try to contain forces that are out of our control. I think from a military standpoint it was and is bad policy. And I know some former military big wigs that would agree.

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Anonymous posted on

I agree, time machines would be a useful tool for foreign policy decisions.

I also agree that it would have been far more preferable not to invade Iraq, but that's not where we were by 2002-03 with Iraq. By the end of 1998 (ie, President Clinton's Operation Desert Fox and the Iraq Liberation Act), our options for Iraq were reduced to 3 hard choices: A. punt, ie indefinitely continue maintaining the UN/US 'containment' of Iraq that was both failing and provocative by many measures (eg, our Iraq mission was the stated reason for al Qaeda's 1993 World Trade Center bombing); B. bail, ie unilaterally end our failing, provocative Iraq 'containment' mission and effectively restore a validated Saddam to full sovereignty; or C. closure, ie, give Saddam a for-reals final chance to come clean or face regime change. ("for-reals final chance" - regime change was set as the bar in 1998 by President Clinton, who represented Operation Desert Fox's bombings as Iraq's "final chance" short of regime change to fully meet its terms of compliance.

If you read the Congressional and the United Nations resolutions that are the legal basis of Operation Iraqi Freedom, you'll see that, even knowing now what we didn't know then, Saddam's Iraq failed to fully meet its terms of compliance.

Keep in mind that President Bush was a foreign policy Liberal who believed in the Freedom Agenda. Also note that that many of the "former military big wigs" and serious national security thinkers who opposed Operation Iraqi Freedom are foreign policy Realists who believed that keeping irrational war-mongering Stalinist tyrant Saddam Hussein in charge of Iraq served American foreign policy interests.

As a Columbia student, you might be President someday. You have to be more serious than the "polls". That said, faced with the 3 options, President Bush chose 'C'. Since you oppose 'C' final chance to come clean or regime change, if you had been in President Bush's shoes, would you have chosen 'A' indefinite containment of Iraq? Or 'B' free Saddam?

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colulion posted on

I think most military folks are realists or neo-realists to an extent; what is a greater expression of power than the military.

But I believe in the long-play whenever possible: Saddam was getting up in years, there was no firm way the regime had set up for power handover, which means there was invariably going to be a more natural moment for democratic transition, or well perhaps civil war. In this sense, we accelerated forces in Iraq, and put it on a fast course to regime change, but at what cost - legitimacy in the region, legitimacy at home? It seems like a huge price to pay for a rather unstable answer, and that was true in 2003 as it is today as the problem with invasion. Iraq was always a regional issue, we were invited to participate in 1991 because of consensus support in the region, and we ultimately need to understand Iraq as being part and parcel of a regional strategy that the Iraq war itself made more complicated.

I would've seen how historical dynamics played out through an indefinite containment of Iraq, while pursuing a more sustained interest in civil society building in the region with support of universities and non-profits. Eventually Saddam was going to screw up for real, I mean the Mubarak situation is proof positive enough that an increasingly globalized world with easy communication is enough to set off regime change in the most unlikely of places (and I am weary to call any regime change as necessarily having to be democratic; I think it is clear that democracy is not always the most appropriate form of government for all people, nor is it clear what form of constituent based government is best, though certainly it is an ideal).

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Anonymous posted on

After Iraq's expulsion from Kuwait, that 1991 consensus fell apart very quickly and the US and UK were effectively left holding the bag for the post-war follow up and enforcement. A good historical analogy is the international failure to enforce post-WWI resolutions (whether they were fair or not) against Germany. President Clinton carried out Operation Desert Fox without UN permission. Some Bush advisors questioned why Bush went to the UN at all instead of following Clinton's established precedent of exercising enforcement authority with unilateral military action against Iraq.

The internal situations and our influences on 2011 Egypt and 2003 Iraq, and the dictators of the two nations, were very different. Twitter and Facebook are not going to stop a brutal regime in control of its 'elite' military forces in a suspicious, divided sectarian society that is fully willing and able to violenty counter-attack its own people.

A reason that Egyptians are able to albeit uneasily trust a military-controlled transition and Obama was able to hedge his support of Mubarak is that the US military has maintained close ties with the Egyptian military. The US and Egyptian militaries have worked together and Egyptian officers have trained in the US for decades. Plus Egyptian dependancy on American financial aid and diplomatic ties all contributed to tying the hands of Mubarak, perhaps not unlike the Shah's hands were tied in Iran. We didn't have that kind of influence in Iraq.

In the various civil revolts in North Africa now, there is a pattern where countries with rational leaders with closer ties to the West are more restrained in their responses.

A lot happened inside Iraq between 1991-2003. A reason Muqtada al-Sadr hates the US is because his father was killed when he responded to President Bush Sr's call for an Iraqi uprising, and then the US refused to intervene while Saddam massacred the Shia who were naive enough to trust an America led by foreign policy realists. The belated no-fly zones and UN condemnations were small consolation. Unlike Egypt, Saddam's internal responses to rebellion were not restrained by a dependancy on the US, less so after he had found his way into the oil and weapons black markets. (Eg, while the WMD stockpiles were not found, proscribed weapons systems were found.) Settling in for a long waiting game, Saddam's internal grip only seemed to be tightening and his sons seemed ready to take over.

9/11 and post-war miscalculations did have an effect, too. We were maintaining this failing, provocative containment mission in the heart of Islam (the military operated out of bases in Saudi Arabia). After 9/11, our goal to win over regional hearts and minds and encourage regional liberal reform viz the Freedom Agenda seemed pointless while we were also maintaining an enormously unpopular mission that harmed the Iraqi people while seemingly doing little to solve Saddam.

Plus, I think there were gross miscalculations about the ease and costs of occupying Iraq for a post-war transition. I think some officials really believed Iraqi bureaucrats and the exile Iraqi National Congress could take charge and Rumsfeld's favored light and rapidly reducing footprint could ease our forces out of Iraq quickly.

A third factor was that our military had poor occupation and nation-building skillsets. Worse, with the specter of Vietnam, many military leaders were phobic about occupation and nation-building. As much as our military failed the Iraqi people for years, we could not have learned how to succeed in post-war Iraq with the harsh learning curve of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Necessity produced the rise of GEN Petraeus and COIN, which revived many of our strategies from the Vietnam War, and we're relying on it now in Afghanistan.

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Anonymous posted on

Oops: ... we could not have learned how to succeed in post-war Iraq withOUT the harsh learning curve of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

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Anonymous posted on

Colulion
Maschek said that there are people out there who want to kill us because we are American. This of course sent the anthropology trolls into a liberal tissy which resulted in laughter and shouts of racism from those whack jobs. Is that the statement he is being held accountable for? Can you guys go and negotiate with al quaeda for us? It seems that you know all about those groups and how they think. Maybe you and the CU students could extend an olive branch to them and all the violence would go away. The sick thing is, you believe that.

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woco84 posted on

CU - Those you associate with are just like the books on your shelf. Anyone looking at you looks at those two thing to pass judgement. Pretty clear that the Iranian dictator is welcome - he supplied the weapons that killed and injured those protecting your freedom. The protectors of your freedom, those killed, maimed, mentally traumatized, including the mother's, father's, children are ridiculed. I can just about assure you I would never hire a CU grad.

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Anonymous posted on

I'm an Army veteran and Columbia graduate. I supported having Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speak at Columbia. Why? Because I used to be an Intelligence soldier. I appreciate how hard it is to acquire reliable intel in general and reliable insight on enemy leaders specifically. How lucky are we that Ahmadinejad came to Columbia to freely give Columbia's future statesmen and military officers a first-hand observation of their competition. As with the Ahmadinejad event, Columbia's reach and resources can provide a competitive edge for Columbia ROTC officers that few, if any, other ROTC hosts can match.

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colulion posted on

I think this is the best argument I have heard raised about the advantage to those who become Columbia ROTC graduates.

I still think issues regarding how does ROTC fit into the community fabric remain unclear, at least to me. But I do appreciate the perspective you offer here.

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Anonymous posted on

Yea, you were real lucky to have Ahmadabad speak to you. What an honor that must have been for you and your fellow statesmen to have such a wonderful man speak. How inspirational and motivating that must have been. I bet it sent a chill up your leg. Future military officers? OMG, help us.

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Anonymous posted on

Clearly, you don't appreciate the role of Military Intelligence.

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Anonymous posted on

Bretfox, you are being just as disrespectful to this vet as those "anthropology trolls" were being to the town hall vet. HYPOCRISY at its finest

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woco84 posted on

Been in the box myself and I have seen and heard my share of intel reports and I wouldn't need one of them to make a decision on what to do about the bad guys. Just takes the gumption to pull the trigger.

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Anonymous posted on

Pulling that trigger comes at the end of a long line of difficult decisions. The final life and death, history changing decision by the trigger-pulling trooper to squeeze with those oh-so-few ounces of pressure relies on that trooper's commanders, from 2LT to GEN to CinC, having made the best possible decisions. I won't say 'right' decisions, because in our business of making history, it's impossible to know whether we were 'right' until the history is made.

As Columbia ROTC advocates, we believe Columbia's reach and resources can help equip our commanders to make the best possible decisions. Who knows? A Columbia ROTC cadet attending the Ahmadinejad event may one day have to outthink Ahmadinejad either to win a war or, better yet, to win without a war. And something that Columbia ROTC officer gleaned about Ahmadinejad from attending that event will give him the slight competitive edge needed to make a better history.

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Anonymous posted on

1) I think ROTC should be at Columbia. Bring Ivy League talent into the military. That is a great idea.

2) For those who post they would never hire a CU grad because of this small minority, I am guessing you are not and never will be in a position to hire anyone. The statements in themselves show a lack of management skills and a lack of a basic sense of reality.

3) Put it to rest folks. If anything this only shows a lack of maturity in some cases and an obvious hate of CU that the New York Times has had for years. Why give them more fuel to work with.

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Anonymous posted on

Your post seems to be the pervasive CU attitude.

1) You say bring "Ivy League talent" into the military. Hopefully, our military will continue to seek patriotic, courageous men and women who love American will be willing to give their life to protect us and the constitution. As far as our military having "Ivy League talent", I could care less. That is silly.

2) I have hired and fired more people than you will probably ever know but that is not the issue.

I am sure that you will heckle me and call me a "racist" but let me tell you about the real world Ivy League guy.

Truly successful business owners who are self-made are looking for these qualities in the people they hire: honesty and integrity, good work ethic, good attitude, willingness to learn and the ability to get along with others. Give me a high school drop out with these qualities and I will teach him/her all they need to know to rise to the top. I have never met a liberal that places character values higher than intellectual values. Liberals define character as "situational ethics". In other words their ethics change based on the situation.

Your so called “management skills” may get you an entry level position at McDonald's but I doubt if you will last because of your attitude. Your "Ivy League" elitist attitude is an indicator of your immaturity and lack of real world knowledge.

3)What Americans hate is seeing their hard earned tax money being poured into institutions like CU that no longer uphold the values that made America great. CU is anti-military, and promotes a left wing, liberal, progressive, socialist agenda. President Obama is an example of CU indoctrination. He uses “situational ethics” on a daily basis and very few business owners can rely on his word. This lack of trust is why businesses are holding on to their money and not hiring. He is a very dangerous man.

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Anonymous posted on

Tax money being poured into CU? Columbia is a private institution. and Guest, your post is the best one on this entire thread. thank you

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Anonymous posted on

I'll be honest, when I first heard this story I was PISSED. I served in the same unit as Maschek. 1st BCT of the 10th Mountain Division. I was in Kirkuk at the time he was shot. Those of us who serve form very strong bonds among each other. Trust and teamwork are absolutely central, because your life depends on it. That is why so many of us take it a little personally when someone heckles or jeers (or whatever term you prefer) at someone who not only served, but took a lot of enemy rounds in the process.

I'm glad I didn't post the same day I heard about this story because my anger has had time to cool. I've been having a hard time finding and starting a civilian career despite decent qualifications. It's been one of those weeks where I think that nobody in this country has our back, despite the "Support Our Troops" magnets which festooned Americans' cars after the wars started. But I didn't know until reading the Spectator articles here that Columbia had more Veteran students than any other Ivy League school. That says something. "Deeds Above Words," runs the motto of one unit my father served in. Another way of saying, actions speak louder than words.

Hitting the civilian world as a new Veteran is very isolating because it seems you have so LITTLE in common with anyone around you. This feeling usually subsides as you begin to make connections with work and classes and church or other community meetings, as you come to understand that while not everyone has been to a war zone, a lot of people have had some pretty serious crises in life and they CAN relate to hardship in general. (A diagnosis of cancer for example, or the death of a loved one before his or her time.) This process is called "re-integration." The danger is, re-integration can stall. If Veterans do not get job offers which match their qualifications (unemployment for recent combat Veterans is above 15%), if their loved ones reject them, if their views are shot down rather than listened to (not saying you have to agree), if they take on more schooling than they are ready for. These things can pile up and can intensify a Veteran's perception of isolation to the point where they give up and drop out, as some of our Vietnam Veterans did. Just look out for the Veterans among you. They are used to someone always having their back, don't let THIS generation let them down.

Thanks for hearing me out.

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Anonymous posted on

Columbia students always have and will continue to be SCUMBAGS!

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Anonymous posted on

Wow, I'd really appreciate it if some of the right-wing trolls on this thread would go up to a veteran some time and explain which political current it was, in this democracy we live in, that got them sent to Iraq and shot at and, God forbid, injured.

But on second thought, maybe that's something which they'd prefer to keep to themselves.

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Bretfox posted on

Well, dear Ivy Leaguer you need to learn the basics first and then you might understand. We are not a democracy, we are a republic. This fact used to be taught in the third grade until liberals took over our education system. What you are witnessing in Egypt, Yemen, libya, Bahrain, Jordan, Algeria, and soon Saudi Arabia, is a democracy in action. Better known as mob rule. We have been a republic up until recently. We have operated in the past under a constitution that protected individual rights. Our current liberal, progressive, socialist, administration is determined to ignore our constitution. They will fail.

Now, for the other part of your post. I am a veteran of the Vietnam war so I have been around a while. I know what it means to serve my country. Most of us vets take pride in our service and love our country. We don't need any type of politician, whether right or left, explaining why we were sent anywhere. We serve because we love freedom and the constitution that guarantees us our freedom. No one wants to be shot at but for the most part we accept the fact that we may be killed defending our country. Politicians come and go so what they tell us really has little effect on why we serve. We just do our job no matter who is temporarily in charge. We love America, family and God. We don't serve politicians. We serve YOU.

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Anonymous posted on

Those on left are all for tolerance, diversity, and inclusion whenever it happens to suit their interests, but woe be unto those who dare express a point of view that they might find disagreeable. The Columbia elitists got what they deserved.

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Anonymous posted on

This isn't a question of left vs. right; it's a question of civility vs. incivility. Those who heckeled veteran Anthony Maschek were wrong, but so were the media that blew up the incident out of proportion, making it look as if it was the whole Columbia community that had acted that way. Columbia has welcomed speakers from all over the world, both from right and left, which is one of the things that makes it unique among higher education institutions. By doing so, and by questioning the speakers, the American public has been able to get a better insight into their thought, regardless of wheather each individual may agree or disagree with the speaker in turn. Insight is valuable for opinion shaping and decision making.

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Anonymous posted on

Instead of worrying about you image, have some courage. Interview the hecklers and ask which part of "Other parts of the world are plotting to kill you" they found funny. Conduct the interview down the street from Columbia next to the holes in the ground that were The World Trade Center buildings. Ask them if they think America deserved to be attacked and if they thought the innocents on the planes and in the buildings deserved to die. Publish the names of these 'brave' students who hide in crowds and laugh at soldiers in wheelchairs. Have some courage.

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